TerrainHopper

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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Vitolds » 27 Mar 2015, 16:39

Burgerman , I do not know how to explain to you, you're wrong
so can will understand
this crude comparison

Caterpillar D6R LGP, engine output of 140 kW
Image


engine output of 10 kW (5+5)
Image
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Vitolds » 27 Mar 2015, 16:41

1.3 Kw

Image
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2015, 17:46

I am not wrong.

If I am wrong then Physics is wrong. And its not.

Tell me...
How did you arrive at 1.2KW???
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2015, 17:56

My chair:
150A x2 output. X45V = 13.5KW Max power

Your chair:
90A? x2 output @ 24V = 4.3KW Max Power until it rolls back...


Zeizel
2x PMS electric Disc Motors
Rated power 2x 4,4kW
Peak power 12/14/18 kW
Torque more than 500Nm
Topspeed 30/35 km/h or 18.6/21.7 mph

Peak Power 2x 12/14/18 kW = 36KW.

140KW for Caterpillar D6R LGP bulldozer is because it has many different gears. To increase torque at low speed.

Yours is underpowered by miles. I do understand. But you plainly do not!
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Vitolds » 27 Mar 2015, 18:12

speed for this technique is not needed
important gearbox
the problem is not in the controller
problem in the gearbox motors wheelchair
Install motors that I showed you'll be able with place get ahead of Ferrari
I karting costs one such motor
simply ROCKET!
forget about those watts and kilowatts
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2015, 18:18

You have no clue.

And the above post makes no sense and is not English.

Max torque depends on AMPS.
Max torque also depends on gear ratio used (final top speed at X volts.

If you have say 100A MAX available (MOTOR AMPS not BATTERY AMPS!!!), and 5mph speed then max torque will be the same regardless of which motor or motors you fit. Give or take say 20 percent due to construction / efficiency.

I am not going to waste more time trying to explain this too you as I already tried. You either are not capable of understanding, or the translation doesn't work.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Vitolds » 27 Mar 2015, 18:19

I know these motors Zeizel
they have me ...
Zeizel built wrong with him yet more problems than Americans
you just do not know about it
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2015, 18:26

One question at a time. I will make you understand if it kills me.

How many AMPS do your motors (ONE MOTOR) pull when you rotate on the spot on a dry grass field?
Measure it, and show me the readings as you turn it left/right on video. (If it turns at all) it will read the MAXIMUM your controller is able to supply. 90 Amps. Use a Clamp on Amp meter.
Like this: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/motoramps.mp4

Why? Because this will show you that you have run out of power and have zero left...

When you show me this we will continue. But you will just ignore me... THIS is the limit. This is your problem. Also the Tank chair problem.
Its even a problem on a NORMAL wheelchair sometimes that turns easily! Turn left, right, left, right, without moving backwards or forwards.

SHOW ME that it doesn't run up to your controllers limit. And do this with your normal 6mph gearing. NOT battery amps. MOTOR AMPS!

Don't bother replying with anything else because its all meaningless.

And again:
Tell me...
How did you arrive at 1.2KW???

You ignored this...
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Vitolds » 28 Mar 2015, 00:37

1.3 is nominal of motors, such as 10 (5 + 5) in Austria
tested ticks as you
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 28 Mar 2015, 01:38

Ticks???

The Watt rating on a motor does not give you any idea of its output power, current draw, or anything useful.
It isn't a NOMINAL rating. Its the max power input (Volts x Amps = watts) it can sustain CONTINUALLY. It may be 5 or 10 times this on some motors at stall depending on how you power it and its impedance.

Its easy to find a 100 Watt motor that is MUCH more powerful than a 200 watt motor.

Power depends on:
Motor Impedance, Stall current, load, volts, RPM that the load allows.

YOUR motors will try to draw LOTS of MOTOR Amps at stall. Much more than the Amp rating your controller can supply.

Measure it, and you will find it is 90A on a 90A controller. While the chair doesn't move or responds slowly. Rapidly falling away as it heats up.

And here is the problem...
VOLTS = RPM
AMPS = TORQUE
POWER = TORQUE X RPM (Amps x Volts = Watts) Watts = Power. And you are limited to a fixed 24V and 90A by your battery and controller.

90 X 24 = NOT ENOUGH WATTS to go both fast and have a lot of torque.
You have to choose one or the other.

Gear for 1MPH and you have 10x the torque.
Gear for 10MPH and you have 10x the speed.
Gear for 5MPH and you don't have enough torque. Unless you fit it all in a powerchair where it was intended to go.

Clamp meter, motor cable, turn left right, on a dry clean road. Video it, and show me.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Reuben's Place » 26 May 2016, 13:10

We bought a terrain Hopper an overland 4 2013

Would not recommend them. First time we used it it caught fire. OK maybe they were just unlucky that time, however it has broken down 80%-90% of the time we have used it. Which basically means having to carry my son in a fireman's lift and then push the terrain hopper back.

Or just leave it where it breaks down and carry my son back home and hope its till there when i get back to it, to then have to push it back.

So no I would not recommend one.

Still keeps you fit
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Reuben's Place » 26 May 2016, 13:21

larryvoyer wrote:Can someone review the TerrainHopper - http://www.terrainhopper.com. I can't find it anywhere on forum. I'm looking at the Overlander 4Z



We bought a terrain Hopper an overland 4 2013

Would not recommend them. First time we used it it caught fire. OK maybe they were just unlucky that time, however it has broken down 80%-90% of the time we have used it. Which basically means having to carry my son in a fireman's lift and then push the terrain hopper back.

Or just leave it where it breaks down and carry my son back home and hope its till there when i get back to it, to then have to push it back.

So no I would not recommend one.

Still keeps you fit
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 26 May 2016, 13:28

First time we used it it caught fire


What exactly caught fire? Let me guess. A lithium battery with a BMS system on it :?
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Reuben's Place » 26 May 2016, 13:33

Burgerman wrote:
First time we used it it caught fire


What exactly caught fire? Let me guess. A lithium battery with a BMS system on it :?


You guessed it Quite an experience trying to get your disabled son out while its on fire. Good job we where on the beach, sand does put out fires quickly :shock: :shock:
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby steves1977uk » 26 May 2016, 13:50

http://www.terrainhopper.com/product/2216/

Specs just say 2x12v 80AH batteries. Was this upgraded to a Lithium pack?

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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Reuben's Place » 26 May 2016, 14:05

steves1977uk wrote:http://www.terrainhopper.com/product/2216/

Specs just say 2x12v 80AH batteries. Was this upgraded to a Lithium pack?

Steve


Yes it was
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 26 May 2016, 14:48

This is exactly why we DONT use a BMS and why we charge with a proper charger instead. Those things always screw up the pack, fail, or occasionally burn your house down.

Also you need a bigger pack to load the cells less.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby steves1977uk » 26 May 2016, 15:47

Reuben's Place wrote:
steves1977uk wrote:http://www.terrainhopper.com/product/2216/

Specs just say 2x12v 80AH batteries. Was this upgraded to a Lithium pack?

Steve


Yes it was


Lemme guess, a pack made with LiPo or LiCo cells? No chair or buggy for disabled people should use those or a BMS (Burn Me Stupid aka Battery Management System). The only safe cells are the LiFePO4 ones with a proper charger.

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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 26 May 2016, 22:01

Burn Me Stupid aka Battery Management System


Battery Murdering System,
or
Battery Massacre System.

What happened is this. Guy designs Lead powered off roader. Figures out that after 15 minutes actual off road the battery is dead... Because that CANNOT work. Comes here to visit me several years ago. Sees my lithium pack which is huge, uses no BMS...

Goes to LiFePO4 expert. These people are basically in the business of selling Lithium batteries to dummies. So they recommend a Lithium block to replace the lead bricks.

This will be The SAME capacity as the Lead... (WRONG!!!)
And since everybody knows you need a BMS it wiill have one, and a dumb charger. (WRONG!!!)

Result, battery reliability issues, short service life, not much better range than lead, possible fires. And lithium gets a bad reputation through ignorance.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Sully » 29 May 2016, 18:10

Quote; "Because its not a wheelchair, its a car". But don't head to the highway in it! :lol: All that will be heard is beep squish!! :o

All kidding aside though, those look to be pretty good prices for those machines. I still am not too sure I could access or egress them "easily" And I also think the beach patrol, may take exception with them, Where a "chair looking rig" looks like it belongs there. These patrols do not like stuff that doesn't fit exactly in the definitions section of their "book" and do no have a great sense of humor while you are trying to explain your point. Because it's not a wheelchair, it's a car. makes my point very well.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby sacharlie » 25 Aug 2018, 18:31

Burgerman wrote:Also there's a big difference between a racy two stroke zinging and assaulting your ears with a rooster tail of dirt thrown up behind it, and a quiet 4 stroke electric start twist and go utility 4x4.

One is for racing. The other usually for hiking/farming. The 4 stroke ones can be really quiet, and offend nobody.

Something like this http://www.saferwholesale.com/125cc-Mid ... xe_atv.htm



That's a very good link!

Petro is convenient but over here limits where you can use it. All the government parks allow only electric mobility aids.
Here in the USA GREED is GLORIFIED. The TOP 0.25% live off the backs of the WORKING MIDDLE CLASS.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 25 Aug 2018, 20:23

Theres literally 1000s of similar or different devices. Thats the first twist and go, leccy start, reverse on bars, quiet 4 stroke I saw... And easy to modify for a rehab style seat. Or even joystick control. And cheap.

The only issue is while very quiet, its only got 7hp so wont be ripping up any trees! Wont have the power to climb out of an old quarry or anything major... And top speed will be pretty limited at about 35 mph. So any use on a road may be a liability. But it will outperform battery power by a large margin while being much lighter/cheaper. Also noticed a sale 1100 dollars!
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby ex-Gooserider » 28 Aug 2018, 01:53

sacharlie wrote:Petro is convenient but over here limits where you can use it. All the government parks allow only electric mobility aids.


WRONG!!!! Check the ADA rules - definitely apply since you give your location as Texas, and last I heard they haven't managed to secede yet... :mrgreen:

The ADA guidelines specifically say that ANY form of mobility aid, including petroleum powered, must be allowed unless there are specific reasons not to, i.e. petro isn't allowed indoors for safety reasons. They can also prohibit dual track vehicles (including regular power chairs) on single track trails if the trail would be damaged.... They DO allow "reasonable" rules about use, for instance restricting you to walking speeds in pedestrian areas, etc....

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