TerrainHopper

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TerrainHopper

Postby larryvoyer » 16 Sep 2014, 23:10

Can someone review the TerrainHopper - www.terrainhopper.com. I can't find it anywhere on forum. I'm looking at the Overlander 4Z
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 17 Sep 2014, 02:24

There are hundreds of off road buggies for disabled people. New ones spring up daily. All have the same issues. They are cars. Electric powered cars.

The guys that designed this one are about 12 miles from me, and paid me a visit for advice as they discovered that mobility controllers, motors, batteries both don't have the power or the stamina once you fit them to anything off road... 15 mins and overheat, dead batteries, inadequate torque ends play.

They looked at my BM3 chair/controller/3kwh lithium battery and talked for a long time about their device, and went away with me meaning to pay a visit. They are some church group, which kind of put me off going to visit as I think all that imaginary friend stuff is truly bonkers and harmful... However I will pay a visit soon. About 2 years late.

They may offer lithium batteries now? I think. But small and still limited to brushed motors, 24v, mobility controllers etc. Buy a quad bike with leccy start and way better capability for a few hundred on ebay... Why suffer the horrid limitations, cost of battery power if it only runs outdoors???
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Sully » 17 Sep 2014, 15:22

I'll tell you what, send me one and I will test drive it on the beaches and hunting in the woods nearby.

I will write you an un-biased critique in very minute detail. BUT, I get to keep the test Terrain Hopper though.

If they upgrade it I will install the upgrades or if I am incapable, will get them installed, and do more test drives with more un-biased critiques.

Fair enough?????
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby larryvoyer » 18 Sep 2014, 04:33

Thanks Burgerman..their lithium was 2X24V at 60Ah. The 4Z has 4 motors at 3Kw. Their info doesn't say if they're bushless. It's pretty pricey and would have to be shipped across the pond. Also they would have to beef up the motors for my weight. Church group is definitely a turn off for me also.

I will look at alternatives here in the States. One I can also use inside :-)
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2014, 11:06

None of these are wheelchairs, they are electric cars. Since they are not going indoors, buy something with a proper engine so you don't have the battery/power/range or weight issues?
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Sully » 18 Sep 2014, 15:06

Internal combustion engines equal noise which is a huge draw back in my opinion. And the speed available puts an engine driven Off Road wheelchair into a different class of vehicle.
They also have the many motor vehicle restrictions in plenty of locations in the USA. You lose the advantages of being in the same consideration as a wheelchair.
Single purpose electric small vehicles are way overpriced and if they use lead/acid batteries they have all the negatives of that mode of power.
Look at all the bruhaha over Segways even with permanent seating installed, and where the only real visual differences is the lack of two casters, and some sort of tippers.

Available as built Speed exceeding running/walking speed, width, and user safety is written into what constitutes a power wheelchair under ADA and Handicapped Durable Medical Equipment rules, where "Off Road Personal Transportation" stuff like scooters are adjudicated differently. Even though most current enforcement agencies (in the USA) say very little, as more chairs exceeding the basic rules governing our wheelchairs, and as more conflicts with motor vehicles occur, and as wheelers push the current envelope, expect to see more enforcement of those old and obscure laws. And then hopefully some jury nullification of them. :o
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2014, 16:43

http://www.terrainhopper.com/wp-content ... der-4Z.png

See the size of these things. Its already a small car.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Sully » 19 Sep 2014, 15:12

YES ! I do, and that prohibits them from being used as Power driven wheelchairs in most places like on sidewalks or maybe even streets unless they are registered as some form of motor vehicle.

While from the look of it, I may have a problem mounting such a machine, and very likely for you it would be impossible, especially without assistance. What good is that?

In most brushy wooded areas it is too wide and high (balance) for hunting and with too many arm restrictions for fishing. Probably OK for photography, bird, and wildlife viewing. But hey if they would send me one I will test it for such purposes and write a comprehensive report, even if my preconceived notions are wrong. ;)
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2014, 15:48

Here's a quick description of how it came about...

Church group (sad I know) had a bunch of disabled kids. One church group member was brighter than most and designed this so they could go onto the beach near where they all live. And from there it all grew...

Here is the problem...
ALL these off road buggies/cars that use mobility controls and lead batteries. They are almost adequate with a powerchair on a flat surface and with easy to turn casters. As soon as you introduce off road, skid steer, tracks, etc or make it all big enough to be stable off road the puny 100 (120?) amp mobility controller resembles a lawn mower engine powering a truck... And the batteries cannot cope, and the thing lack torque, wont turn or climb, overheats the controller trying, and eats its batteries.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby ex-Gooserider » 23 Sep 2014, 05:40

Actually there are some new ADA regs out that specifically address "Other Powered Mobility Equipment" which basically seems to boil down to any powered device that isn't a wheelchair or a full blown car / truck, and is claimed by the user to be needed for mobility... (Like other "accomodation" issues, the user is NOT required to give details on the nature of the disability, and the service provider isn't supposed to ask)

According to the summary I've read, they can't prohibit ANY device except for clear safety issues, (i.e. it is ok to prohibit an internal combustion engine indoors) or when it would require major changes like letting a four wheeler go on single track vehicle trails. However they can adopt 'reasonable' use rules like saying that you can't operate above walking speed in a pedestrian area. However it looks like they wouldn't be allowed to prohibit an "HP-ATV" with a gas engine if they allowed one of the electric buggies that was the same size...

This isn't to say that you might have to fight with the authorities to get access the first time (I'd advise carrying a copy of the regs).

On the subject of noise, I agree that it isn't great, but I remember seeing a report a few years back (sorry, no source reference) where they did wildlife observation from blinds and found that there was LESS disruption of "normal activities" and a shorter period before they returned to normal when an ATV or dirt bike went through the area than when a hiker did... Supposedly the researchers were surprised by this, as they had theorized it would go the other way, or at least be about the same....

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Sully wrote:Internal combustion engines equal noise which is a huge draw back in my opinion. And the speed available puts an engine driven Off Road wheelchair into a different class of vehicle.
They also have the many motor vehicle restrictions in plenty of locations in the USA. You lose the advantages of being in the same consideration as a wheelchair.
Single purpose electric small vehicles are way overpriced and if they use lead/acid batteries they have all the negatives of that mode of power.
Look at all the bruhaha over Segways even with permanent seating installed, and where the only real visual differences is the lack of two casters, and some sort of tippers.

Available as built Speed exceeding running/walking speed, width, and user safety is written into what constitutes a power wheelchair under ADA and Handicapped Durable Medical Equipment rules, where "Off Road Personal Transportation" stuff like scooters are adjudicated differently. Even though most current enforcement agencies (in the USA) say very little, as more chairs exceeding the basic rules governing our wheelchairs, and as more conflicts with motor vehicles occur, and as wheelers push the current envelope, expect to see more enforcement of those old and obscure laws. And then hopefully some jury nullification of them. :o
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 23 Sep 2014, 12:54

Also there's a big difference between a racy two stroke zinging and assaulting your ears with a rooster tail of dirt thrown up behind it, and a quiet 4 stroke electric start twist and go utility 4x4.

One is for racing. The other usually for hiking/farming. The 4 stroke ones can be really quiet, and offend nobody.

Something like this http://www.saferwholesale.com/125cc-Mid ... xe_atv.htm

Offers no need of legs. On the bars, or easy to convert. 4 stroke, quiet, electric start, twist and go, and includes reverse. And lights. It will go further, faster should you want, and is more capable off road than anything battery powered, and you can get about 10 of them for the cost of a typical "mobility" off road buggy. You could convert this to joystick control if needed (actuators, and a mobility seat) quite cheaply. And if its still too noisy, there are companies offering additional silencing. They then just chug quietly past.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby LROBBINS » 23 Sep 2014, 15:18

John,

I don't think you want that one - weight limit 160 lbs.

Ciao,
Lenny
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 23 Sep 2014, 16:39

Well it wasn't for me! And I am on a diet!

There are hundreds of different ones though. Farm type ones may be best.

Maybe even one of these http://www.saferwholesale.com/Brand-New ... pgrade.htm Still way cheaper than a powerchair... And will make a tank chair look silly.

Engines on these sound like a 4 stroke generator, at worst. And 3 and a bit k dollars... Why anyone buys a overpriced "mobility" off roader with batteries always baffles me.

Image

Adult sized, quiet, masses of range, cheaper than a very basic powerchair. 4 or 5 times cheaper than a typical electric "mobility" off road buggy.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby garriew » 23 Sep 2014, 21:27

Burgerman wrote: Why anyone buys a overpriced "mobility" off roader with batteries always baffles me.
Because not everyone is a quad w/ upper-body strength.

Some people, like me, need to sit in a position like in a wheelchair and need a joystick.

It's hard to find someone that can convert things to work.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 24 Sep 2014, 00:38

Well it is. But really its not so hard.
Easy to say if you know how, I know.

But think, if you bought a 4x4 simple 4 stroke single twist and go like the post just above, you need 3 things to begin.


1. A seat. You fit a simple WC style rehab seat. That will take a decent engineer an afternoon. Take any used rehab chair, transplant via a few mounting points. Complete with all its functions. 3 switches needed depending on function required.

2. A normal joystick. Forwards = throttle via a RC style servo. Back = reduced throttle and a 2nd servo for working the already existing disk brakes.

3. steer = an actuator, to turn the bars... That's reasonably simple in closed loop like a servo.

4. Only needed if you want reverse. Weld a long lever to the "gear stick" that your foot normally operates. Or another small actuator and a switch on the bars.

Done. If that took a reasonably bright guy 2 weeks, (reality 2 days) its still way cheaper and better than any mobility device. And you could afford a few spares.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby garriew » 24 Sep 2014, 23:54

Burgerman wrote:Well it is. But really its not so hard.
Easy to say if you know how, I know.

But think, if you bought a 4x4 simple 4 stroke single twist and go like the post just above, you need 3 things to begin.
I'd love to convert a chair to something that can go "mudding" and hill climbing. A true outdoor chair with a motor.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 25 Sep 2014, 00:28

Except that it really bugs me when these outdoor off road buggies are called "chairs"!!!

A chair, or powerchair is supposed to be a wheelchair. That means indoor capable, primarily. Must be able to door doors and stuff and turn indoors easily. If it cant its just another car... Or buggy.

And may as well be petrol powered as its far superior in weight, cost, range, power, etc.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Sully » 26 Sep 2014, 16:47

I agree 100%, and while I tried to say this in many other ways, I agree they are NOT Power wheelchairs ! BM 4 stroke engines are nearly as noisy in this application as a 2 stroke. Any noise is still noise, something that electric motors do not make. When simple foot steps have to be made carefully, the make vibrations in the earth, and if the only noise is the roll of a tire, the click of the stationary solenoid brake on the electric motor is still too loud.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby flagman1776 » 28 Sep 2014, 02:08

When I was new to the mobility game... only needed an off road vehicle... I bought my Pride Wrangler (now discontinued). Another member on the Pride "owners club" site (since revamped) mounted knobbies on his to go deer hunting. I should have grabbed the pictures as the links are dead now. Asside from the tires & a camo paint job, maybe a slight lift, it was as issued.

To be honest, I use mine as a truck & with the stock tires I can go over about any tall grass or unmowed fields. (Be warry of rocks & logs hidden from view.) A scooter solution is only suitable for those with good upper body & resonable back strength... but it is much more energy conservative than a power chair which uses a joy stick over a tiller.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 28 Sep 2014, 10:34

Because its not a wheelchair, its a car.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby flagman1776 » 29 Sep 2014, 00:17

Yes, a Wrangler or other huge scooter... is useful outdoors but not suitable for indoor uses. If one can afford dedicated outdoor transport then it has uses. I can & do take it to events where it is tollerated as "Medical Equipment". ATVs & Golf carts might be better suited BUT are not "Medical Equipment" thus not permitted.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 29 Sep 2014, 05:11

Well to be fair I don't really see scooters as medical equipment either for most users. Around here there are thousands. Mostly used as transport for middle aged or older users that can walk fine but weigh about 2x as much as the rest of us... As such they use these monsters in shopping centres, shops, and are a danger on footpaths etc. The problem here is that most able bodied people do not see a difference between these and essential powerchairs and tar us all with the same brush.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby ex-Gooserider » 30 Sep 2014, 06:20

Again, under CURRENT ADA regs in the US, a golf cart might be able to get by as "medical equipment" especially if it's a single seater - I suspect that they'd look suspicious at one of the small bus models... My reading is that as long as you state that it is needed for a disability they would have a hard time NOT allowing it...

In terms of the legitimacy of a scooter as "medical gear" I will certainly agree there are people using them who have questionable needs, and / or ones that would be greatly aided by shedding a few (hundred) pounds, but there ARE folks with legitimate needs... Biggest is that there are a lot of illnesses that leave one with a lack of ability to maintain blood oxygen levels - with the result that walking more than a few feet is a problem as the patient is burning oxygen faster than his lungs / heart can supply it... They don't need the constant assistance a chair provides, but do need the distance capability of the (usually cheaper) scooter...

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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby ProfessorSammy » 26 Mar 2015, 12:30

I was interested in the comments and discussions on the ‘TearrainHopper’, especially after seeing it on BBC ‘Look North’ and subsequently on ‘You Tube’ and the ‘TerrainHopper’ website. I too have not read anywhere on this forum, of someone actually using the ‘TerrainHopper’ to do what they say it can do. A review I have come across is this one http://www.georgepas.co.uk/i-conquer-the-pen-y-fan/, and this one https://accessthedales.wordpress.com/20 ... in-hopper/, which may be of help to others.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2015, 13:17

There are thousands of off road buggies, cars, 4x4s, etc. Non of which are wheelchairs. As in you can only use them outdoors. So I don't get it?

Why spend a fortune on a "wheelchair" (that isn't) when its using batteries and a mobility controller that both don't have enough power or enough range when you are off road? Its not like it has to go indoors, so any almost silent, outdoor vehicle or buggy with a well silenced petrol engine is a better much more capable bet. And ideally needs to be using fat low pressure wide tyres.

Contrary to the vids on Utube etc you will find the performance esp stamina when used off road, on any electric power device limited if its using a mobility controller or batteries. These are just adequate on a flat surface with caster wheels. And still many complain about lack of control or range. They even overheat in a normal wheelchair if used aggressively or on hills etc..

E.G. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=OFF+R ... 53&bih=839

Specifically something like this twist and go
Image
That's quite big, but around £2.3K

Or this http://www.saferwholesale.com/125cc-Mid ... xe_atv.htm
1500 dollars... Also twist and go. Needs some small modifications.

Almost all of which are cheaper than anything targeting "mobility" too.
Adapted versions are available. Or can be adapted. There's a company 30 miles from me doing this.

Like these from cheap china.
Or something smaller. Like a modded twist and go 4 stroke electric start farm type quiet quad bike.

Or

Image

These too have been modified for simple hand control. Safer, faster, more capable, no range issues, no performance or overheating/rollback issues.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby ProfessorSammy » 26 Mar 2015, 18:20

I understand what you’re saying Burgerman, but your issue is not the issue that I am referring to. The question IS there is no objective review on this forum regarding the ‘TerrainHopper’, i.e. actually got in one, driven it in various terrains to test the claims made. The fact that it is for outdoors, is made very clear. Different tools for different jobs, one type of chair CANNOT do all things.
All I have done is point out that it is quite easy to have a go at something that has not been objectively tested therefore any views are going to be subjective ones, as is evident by the past posts. Until then, it seems to me morally wrong and objectionable to have ago at something where there is no actual personal experience of driving the ‘TerrainHopper’, under the conditions purported by the manufacturer. Hence my posting of the earlier links, where someone has actually got in one, driven it under the conditions the manufacturer have stated it can cope with and reported what they found, objectively.
Are you really asking and seeking for a chair that is able to do all things? If that is case, I agree. Even the brilliant chair you have built cannot do all things; it cannot go over all types of terrain and therefore has its limitations. That is why I am saying different chairs for different situations and conditions. It’s the same in all aspects of life, e.g., with spanners and screwdrivers they all called screwdrivers and spanners but are used differently under particular conditions and situations and are made specifically to meet those needs.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2015, 19:15

All I have done is point out that it is quite easy to have a go at something that has not been objectively tested therefore any views are going to be subjective ones, as is evident by the past posts. Until then, it seems to me morally wrong and objectionable to have ago at something where there is no actual personal experience of driving the ‘TerrainHopper’, under the conditions purported by the manufacturer.


The terrain hoppers manufacturer, a religious guy that is very genuine wanted to make a "chair" for kids to go on the beach for his church group. He already came to me, 2 years ago, for advice and a talk. They are just 15 miles away.
The reason? The ones I already mentioned.

HE said (not me) that it lacked power and torque much as I predicted. The REASON for the visit. As do ALL off road devices trying to use just low power 120A mobility controllers, intended for normal powerchairs on the flat surfaces with casters. They simply cannot deliver adequate power. But no other controllers are currently available for "mobility" use, with a joystick off the shelf.

He also mentioned that they ran out of power after an hour or so on the beach due to the extra current being pulled from the lead batteries. (This cases greater peukert affect and reduces effective battery capacity making things worse.
They can get double that range now (almost) by using a (still too small) 24v lithium battery.

The physics of all of this, and why this is the case, is all pretty obvious and simple to understand if you understand how it all works.

No amount of design changes can get past this. The best you can do is to use low gearing (make it really slow) as this increases torque, and range, proportionally.


Only a much larger controller, (48v or greater) and more Amps, and a huge expensive lithium battery will ever work in an off road (high current demand) situation. And so far only one company has done that. And its seriously not cheap!

As such theres absolutely no need to test 45 different "styles" of vehicle all using the same engine. The engine is the limit.
In the case of mobility controllers used on all these off road things, the limit is the 100A (120A just for a few seconds) controller at 24V only. This is the limiting factor. All are effectively using the exact same "lawnmower" engine and small fuel tank. The "motors" just turn this limited power into motion. So bigger motors don't really help. Nor does 4 motors. Or 8...

That's not to say that they don't "work". Its possible by balancing speed (slow gearing), and careful programming, and balancing user weight and efficient motors with big enough batteries (preferably lithium). But its all a balancing act and a bit borderline on power, torque, range, speed etc. As such all of these things are much the same. And many have issues. There's a thread on tank chairs with massive lack of torque, overheat rollback issues on another forum right now. Same thing. Trying to get a limited power level to do too much.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby ProfessorSammy » 26 Mar 2015, 20:45

Pure speculation. Attacking someone on religious grounds has nothing to do with the question and how far they live from you, just seems narrow-minded spitefulness, as a way of trying to deflect from not dealing with the question. Unless you or someone else on the forum has driven the ‘Terrainhopper’ then it has not been reviewed, which is one of the purposes of the forum, which has NOT been met.
The question remains, a review of the ‘Terrainhopper’. Which I have been asking about and posted links to the ones I have found. I believe this is what is meant by being objective by posting reviews of the ‘Terrainhopper’, which was requested.
If it was two years (2012/3 depending on visit) ago as you said that the manufacturer visited you, there would have been significant improvements, modification etc., and its 2015 that was two years ago will not be the same now. AS THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANYONE, INCLUDING YOUR GOOD SELF ACTUALLY GETTING INTO A ‘Terrainhopper’, and DRIVING IT, then all you’re saying is pure speculation.
Come on Burgerman, ‘objectivity’ is the key here, ‘not subjectivity’, ‘speculation’, ‘guess work’, ‘hearsay’, ‘according to’, ‘I think’. Get in a ‘Terrainhopper’, drive it and then we can all benefit, from the objective review, if you are able to be objective. Based on what you have said about the manufacturer so far (which was uncalled for, petty, small minded and prejudiced) does not help us in making an objective decision about buying according to our personal preference and needs. It’s beginning to undermine your credibility, as one able to be honest, fair and objective, without the need to stoop so low as to have ago at someone for holding a particular point of view different from your own (which has nothing to do with creating their product). This is not the kind of thinking my family and others fought for in the 2nd World War.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby flagman1776 » 26 Mar 2015, 21:08

While the Heading says POWERCHAIR REVIEWS in smaller letters the forum solicits reviews of any type of adaptive equipment. Since the is a board for vans & road vehicles, I think this is the place for the requested review.
I am open minded about outdoor off road mobility. NO, they are not "powerchairs". Progress is never made by someone saying "it won't work" (which is exactly why the BM series of chairs exists). Different strokes for different folks... & their different needs.
NO, I don't need a power chair. But I wouldn't dare stand without my hand on something or something to lean against. Without my Wrangler, I would have had to end outdoor activities after my Excaserbation in 2001. Not everyone's solution... but let's treat each other with respect.
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Re: TerrainHopper

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2015, 22:14

Pure speculation. Attacking someone on religious grounds has nothing to do with the question and how far they live from you, just seems narrow-minded spitefulness, as a way of trying to deflect from not dealing with the question. Unless you or someone else on the forum has driven the ‘Terrainhopper’ then it has not been reviewed, which is one of the purposes of the forum, which has NOT been met.
The question remains, a review of the ‘Terrainhopper’. Which I have been asking about and posted links to the ones I have found. I believe this is what is meant by being objective by posting reviews of the ‘Terrainhopper’, which was requested.
If it was two years (2012/3 depending on visit) ago as you said that the manufacturer visited you, there would have been significant improvements, modification etc., and its 2015 that was two years ago will not be the same now. AS THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANYONE, INCLUDING YOUR GOOD SELF ACTUALLY GETTING INTO A ‘Terrainhopper’, and DRIVING IT, then all you’re saying is pure speculation.
Come on Burgerman, ‘objectivity’ is the key here, ‘not subjectivity’, ‘speculation’, ‘guess work’, ‘hearsay’, ‘according to’, ‘I think’. Get in a ‘Terrainhopper’, drive it and then we can all benefit, from the objective review, if you are able to be objective. Based on what you have said about the manufacturer so far (which was uncalled for, petty, small minded and prejudiced) does not help us in making an objective decision about buying according to our personal preference and needs. It’s beginning to undermine your credibility, as one able to be honest, fair and objective, without the need to stoop so low as to have ago at someone for holding a particular point of view different from your own (which has nothing to do with creating their product). This is not the kind of thinking my family and others fought for in the 2nd World War.


You obviously didn't understand a word of what I posted. Or read it.
And I never claimed to review it.
I have little interest in electric powered "mobility" off roaders when there are better off road devices already available.

I merely explained why/how all such things suffer from a lack of torque (or range / speed depending on gearing) because mobility controllers are too weedy and batteries are too heavy and too small capacity when the going gets tough.

1. Its NOT a wheelchair. Unless you consider anything with a joystick is a wheelchair? Then there's a bulldozer outside in the street that's a wheelchair.

2. And I didn't attack him on the grounds of him being religious I just mentioned it because it was the REASON he was building chairs. For his churches children to go on the beach where they live. I didn't attack him at all. He's a genuinely nice guy. However he is very far from being an engineer. And he was interested in WHY it had little torque, range, etc. He saw my 45V Roboteq 150A chair (with 3x the power 3x the total watts) and 3x the range (3.2kwh lithium battery) and wanted to understand the details. Which I explained to him. And why.

3. Objective is EXACTLY what I am. I understand the physics, the problem, the limit of power and why this CANNOT be improved without changing to a different control system. And he too understands this now as well. Just because you do not understand what I posted, (and you plainly didn't after saying it is "improved" etc) does not make this information wrong.

I don't need to sit in one, to discover I am right. Or any other mobility controller powered device. I can see a STOCK powerchair, on a smooth surface already running up against the max power limit. Its called physics and engineering. Logic and reason.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/motoramps.mp4 shows the LIMIT of power and torque being reached on a flat surface in a normal wheelchair. Theres nothing left over for sandhills, difficult terrain etc.

This is the very reason I now use a 45V 150 Amp Roboteq controller system in a NORMAL powerchair with a massive 45V lithium battery.

Heres another example.
I have seen a chair in person that does this. about 3 months after they started building them. Brad (the designer) offered one to me for free. I explained that what you see in the film would happen. He has lots of users with this problem. And now a special page on the website explain that you cant turn on the spot etc. To try and stop all the complaints. It overheats the mobility controller, and then it wont move. It scales back amps until it cools down.
This is because the 120A mobility controller (the most powerful in the industry) is nowhere near capable.

This guy thinks its "faulty". Its not. Its just underpowered for the job its expected to do. This is the same problem that all off road devices suffer when using mobility controllers. Here its more extreme. But it applies to all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjyRBFUWNes
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Burgerman
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