RoboteQ GB Project

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RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 09 Oct 2015, 20:19

This is a short video of an Invacare GB Motor paired with a Roboteq HBL2372 controller https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=34A361B489A54316!7296&authkey=!AE_pvUA6dhUmGPk&ithint=file%2cmp4. I've added my own Hall sensors, which I've been moving around trying to get the motor spinning as smoothly as possible, this so far is the best I can get it. I still think it's too noisy and I'm hoping to get it running better in the future.
At 40v it's rotating at 320 rpm both ways and using 1.3 motor amps as measured by the roborun software. For comparison the GB motors currently on my wheelchair spin at 196 rpm flat out unloaded which is using standard Invacare electronics and powered by Headway cells.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby CPguy » 09 Oct 2015, 21:30

Nice stuff! Well done!
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 09 Oct 2015, 21:57

8 rpm per volt on the roboteq.
On the invacare controller you are using 25.6v and probably getting the same rpm per volt, but the invarcare doesent send full pulsewidth to the motor - it leaves headrooom for steering - where the roboteq doesent.

Are you using the script that we all are?

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... Script.txt
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 09 Oct 2015, 22:06

Thanks CPguy :)
I haven't loaded the script yet, I should probably use Wills brushless version shouldn't I? I was going to start working on my joystick next, do you think I should try the script first BM?
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 09 Oct 2015, 22:36

No the one linked to is the same, other than the fact that Will has modified his in some way for other reasons.

It should work fine. But set motor compensation off, and to zero initially and you have no current sensors, so once you get it working you need to use the roboteq internal calculated current. Its all sort of self explanitory in the script.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 11 Oct 2015, 11:47

When I try to load the script to the controller I get this error :-
timeout error while loading script to controller: download aborted

I've searched this forum and also the RoboteQ forum without success for any posts relating to this, anybody seen this error before?
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 11 Oct 2015, 13:56

Nope.

I just load the script from my desktop, (choose the folder icon) and once its loaded, you need to change a few parameters in the user bit at the top, then choose "to device" (new software calls it differently?) and it works. I see a dialog box that says "downloading to device, please wait". Then I either press "run script" or set it to run automatically at start up.

You must have a USB or driver issue. Do you get any problem when setting up profiles or saving them to disk? Reloading them?
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby LROBBINS » 11 Oct 2015, 16:12

I fairly frequently get that timeout error loading form my laptop by USB to the Roboteq. I've just assumed it's a timing or port availability problem as I often have several USB devices running at the same time. Just repeating the download has always worked. Ciao, Lenny
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 11 Oct 2015, 19:39

Thanks chaps. I was using the same button as Lenny from the console screen, if I use the buttons from the scripting screen like Burgerman it works ok. I thought I'd try to find out why they have an 'Upload Script' button on the console screen when you can do it all from the scripting screen but RoboteQ haven't kept their documentation up to date as the button isn't even mentioned in the Nextgen Controllers User Manual :evil:
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby LROBBINS » 11 Oct 2015, 19:44

Nah, I'm usually in the scripting screen when I download, so it's with that button that I sometimes get the time out.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 11 Oct 2015, 19:48

Oops! My bad :oops:
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Williamclark77 » 14 Oct 2015, 21:56

That's awesome! I hope you get it working properly. Makes me wonder if it's a Roboteq thing with the noise. I've used three different pairs of motors from two different manufacturers. All noisy when loaded. I've tried every hall/phase combination possible. The motors simply "growl" some, especially when heavily loaded. Enough to be annoying. No heat or anything though like when the timing is off. I don't have another controller to try the motors with though.

I get the timeout error if I don't stop the script before trying to upload. trying to upload the script while it's running will stop it. You'll get the error but then it SHOULD upload fine after. At least that's how it always works for me.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 14 Oct 2015, 21:58

I never get an error with script loading. On PC desktop or laptop. Its got to be some USB driver or something.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Oct 2015, 22:15

Thanks Will! I was a bit disappointed with the noise, as always it sort of helps when you hear that you're not the only one having the problem, so thanks for that as well :)
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 15 Oct 2015, 09:42

With motor mounted solidly, the extra mass of a wheel and tyre may make a surprizing difference to the noise. The sound is the drum accelerating and decelerating as it sees the pulsewidth. A brushless motor without a prop on it, is noisy on my quadcopter for eg.

Also you can change the frequency of the pulsewidth on my brushed version, and lowering it makes it audible - not sure how that works on brushless though.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Williamclark77 » 15 Oct 2015, 16:46

Mine are louder at low rpm with a heavy load, such as turning and pretty quiet once up to speed. But they're not usually under much load once up to 5 or 6 mph.

I've never tried adjusting the frequency. I know I recall seeing it. I'll have to try it when I get on jackstands and see what it does.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 15 Oct 2015, 17:57

See the roboteq thread re firmware, they have made changes that may help this, and added new sensor modes.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2436&start=1840#p72539
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 15 Oct 2015, 17:58

I was going to ask what that was for, I've played around with it, the default is 18. The full range is 10 - 25 although in the documentation I read somewhere it only goes to 20. I can't detect any difference speed or sound wise, I've just realised I should also have checked the Amps it uses while changing the frequency in case it's more efficient at a certain point
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Burgerman » 15 Oct 2015, 18:01

It is the frequency that the pulse width runs at. Te lower frequencies are audible. Sounds horrid. Dont think theres much efficiency change.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Aug 2019, 17:36

I'm back on my project, and I'm working on getting a pair of GB motors talking to my HBL2372.
At the moment I'm limited to Trapezoidal, but in the future I'll probably get the new 'A' version of Roboteq controller that does Sinusoidal. Can anyone help with info on the small Hall sensor board that sits inside the coils taking readings from the magnetic ring in the picture? You can't see the magnetic ring until you take the axle out. I think Sinusoidal will work with the bipolar latching Hall sensors I've installed, but it would be nice if I could use the existing sensors

magnetic ring
20190807_200425[1].jpg.png
20190807_200425[1].jpg.png (208.16 KiB) Viewed 142 times

Hall sensors. Are they special ones, I'm not sure what the LF stands for

20190807_195950[1].jpg.png
20190807_195950[1].jpg.png (145.6 KiB) Viewed 142 times

Six wires! 2 for power, maybe 2 for each signal? Not sure!
On the Roboteq it's 2 power and 1 for each Hall sensor making a total of 5, but thats for 3 sensors.
20190807_195913[1].jpg.png
20190807_195913[1].jpg.png (200.6 KiB) Viewed 142 times
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby hank » 14 Aug 2019, 19:37

Dont know if this helps you ;)
Wire notes.
Attachments
201407011rfgh40432f7078018.jpg
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Williamclark77 » 14 Aug 2019, 19:42

It's been a long time since I looked into the GB motors but I do believe they used SIN/COS commutation and not 60 or 120 degree hall. That would explain the number of wires.

Edit: Nevermind. Hank posted the above picture while I was fingering my keyboard. SIN COS it is.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Aug 2019, 19:50

Yes it does, thank you Hank! One of the things that made me think it might be possible was that the Sinusoidal mode of the Roboteq HBL2360A has to do a configuration before you can use it, and the original Dynamic controller has the same requirement. So that little board in the motor has an Eeprom on it seeing as theres an Eeprom feed. I certainly know more now, but I'm not sure if I'm closer or further away from being able to do it.
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Aug 2019, 19:55

Hi Will, I know you have one of those new 'A' controllers, what do you think? Is it worth an upgrade?
Did you download the V2 firmware for the old design contollers before they pulled it? I did! I was writing to them as my HBL2372 had an Overvolt fault and I thought it had died, but I loaded my old firmware and it was fine again :clap:
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby hank » 14 Aug 2019, 19:58

Good luck with build project. :thumbup:
Are you planning on using the Roboteq more for reliability or
for a custom script to alter Max Speed -Voltage over the std GB PM.
Sounds interesting but all a bit baffling for me. czy
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Aug 2019, 20:02

More range, more speed if I need it :shock: more control, more torque possibly??
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Aug 2019, 20:04

stevelawiw wrote:More range, more speed if I need it :shock: more control, more torque possibly??

Edit: I'm planning to go to 44.8v
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby hank » 14 Aug 2019, 20:07

Hope it all works out. :clap
Like what your mission is.
Would love to convert my Brushless chair build for those results. :dance :thumbup:
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby Williamclark77 » 14 Aug 2019, 20:19

More everything with the Roboteq if you up the voltage! Speed, power, torque, and a bit of efficiency. More volts vs amps for the same wattage of power is more efficient. Even moreso, I believe, with brushless since it has full voltage PWM'd at all RPMs vs ramping the voltage to increase RPM.

stevelawiw wrote:Hi Will, I know you have one of those new 'A' controllers, what do you think? Is it worth an upgrade?
Did you download the V2 firmware for the old design contollers before they pulled it? I did! I was writing to them as my HBL2372 had an Overvolt fault and I thought it had died, but I loaded my old firmware and it was fine again :clap:


No, I didn't try the firmware. The "A" version is definitely better if you use its features. The added diagnostic tab that auto tunes the motors is great. Yoyu can also swap the UVW and encoder wires in the software instead of having to redo the hardware.

I'm not 100% positive but I do believe you could use those motors as is with the HBL23XXA version since it allows using sin/cos for commutation.

I have no idea where you'd get the information to put in the encoder settings. It has to be right.

Image
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Re: RoboteQ GB Project

Postby stevelawiw » 14 Aug 2019, 20:41

I'm not 100% positive but I do believe you could use those motors as is with the HBL23XXA version since it allows using sin/cos for commutation.

I have no idea where you'd get the information to put in the encoder settings. It has to be right.


I know Shirley for one will be hoping that this is true!
I think I'll concentrate on Trapeziodal for now :shock: Although Vitolds posted somewhere saying that Trapeziodal doesnt use all the power or isn't as efficient, something like that?
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