WheelchairDriver • View topic - GTK Cells Connectors ?

GTK Cells Connectors ?

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 18:49

Planned to connect with ring terminals... And yes delivery by air! In that price. Will make for a serious amount of range!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 18:57

Salsa 6mph does 35km iso with 70Ah lead. Thats a usable 40Ah before you stop. https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... s/salsa-r2

So with 180Ah,div by 40Ah = 4.5 x better, all usable, you could do 4.50x 35km which is 157.5km or 97.8 miles...

Thats ISO /RESNA tennis court bullshit though so it will be less than that. But maybe 2/3rds this. So 66 real world miles?? You have same motors, but are a lot lighter. So you would get much more. But yours are 8.5mph so eat more Amps! So back to say 70 to 85 miles. Which is about right, since your 90Ah battery gives half that. And its half the size.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 18:59

Burgerman wrote:Planned to connect with ring terminals... And yes delivery by air! In that price. Will make for a serious amount of range!



how thick a wire would be enough - would 8 AWG wire be enough ?
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 19:01

Yes because they are short. Maybe less as there are always 2 cells in parallel, depends how its done.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 19:10

thanks its easier to work with 8 instead of a thicker wire -

you think even 10 AWG would be enough ? what if i connected them just 8 in a row - for 90ah or what ever size i find -

in this case i can continue to try to find a cell with the size i need - ADD ON again - but want to fit as much as i can - 75ah if i can - my only concern i need it to be less than 200mm tall - give or take
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 20:15

It may need to take the full current almost of the chair under load. So you cant go too small, but as an addon I think you could get away with 10. But I may be tempted to use 8 anyway.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 20:23

ok 8 is fine - i can do that - any bigger becomes harder you know - 6 is alot thicker - harder to crimp solder - do they make 4 AWG lugs - ? i never seen them -
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 20:40

AWG is a weird thing to me. Its backwards!

Much easier to work in eu sizing. As in 4sqmm or 6sqmm or 10sqmm.

In short runs 6 square mm is ok for intermittent 100A or so. Or continuous 50 to 60A max. Pulse, 200?
3mm is half that.
4mm is about 2/3rds that.
10mm is about almost double that.
How that works out in AWG is anyones guess!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 20:45

yeah it is for you over there and same for us over here - i did find 4 awg lugs actually doing a search - so its all do able one way or another - if i had to use a thicker wire like 6 awg - harder to work with on short runs also - but with 4 awg lug - it can be easier
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 21:42

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pa ... jj9zVFk%3d



6mm wire is approx 4 AWG wire here -

i can say it works with 10AWG wire on the ADD ON - thats what i used on one chair because i used XT90 connector to make it easier to disconnect to charge each time -

the other chair with lead - i used the SB50 since i never have to disconnect it - that works fine and i have used 8 AWG there all the way to the Lead -

on the full chair - i used 10 awg all the way from the pack inside the chair to outside ADD ON - works fine also -

i would at least use 8 AWG and maybe try 6 AWG new for me to try - with a 4 AWG lug -
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 21:55

6 sq mm is way, way smaller than 4AWG.
4AWG is 21sq mm

Four times heavier!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 22:19

Rule of thumb taught to electricians...

6Amps per square mm of copper. (Note: NOT cable diameter!)

A safe conservative continuous rating with low temp pvc type (non silicone) cable is:

0.5mm = 3A
1mm = 6A
1.5mm
2mm = 12A
2.5mm = 15A
4mm = 24A
6mm = 36A
10mm = 60A
16mm = 96A
35mm = 210A
ALL day long, with no cooling buried in a wall or whatever.

Increase by say 50% if in open air, not bundled or wound on a reel. So it cools. Max continuous.

Short term (few minutes for bigger sizes) double this. Any longer and it will get hot and eventually destroy insulation.
Few seconds (say 15 secs on the larger sizes) you can double this again! So 4x more than the above figures. This applies to powerchairs in use. But not for charging.

Silicone covered cables are more fragile, but double these figures as the insulation can stand the heat.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 22:28

i could be wrong but 6 AWG is very thick wire -

i used 10 AWG on my add on pack for the full chair - and works fine - the wire going from the 105ah pack in the chair to outside SB50 - then from there to the ADD ON - i used 10 AWG with XT90 and works fine - if you can use 8 AWG or more - cant hurt - but 10 AWG has been working for me so far -


i only used 10 because of the XT90 connector - - or else i would have used 8 AWG - most chairs factory wiring is 10 AWG and 8 AWG also
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 16 May 2018, 23:18

i been trying to find something like this - the strap - to use under the pack in case it needs to be lifted up and out -

would anyone know where i can find something like that - i searched straps etc, no luck

thanks
Attachments
Rechargeable-26650-12v-12-8v-100ah-lithium.jpg
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby flagman1776 » 17 May 2018, 00:40

Nice Strap. I'd like to know a source too.
I've saved a web handle from an old computer case with the idea of attaching it to a pack... but have never worked out an attachment for it.
TravelScoot, 3P,8S LiFePO4 generic China rework, Hyperion 1420i
TravelScoot2 OEM LI with dumb charger
Pride Wrangler SLA batteries, onboard charging
flagman1776
 
Posts: 1555
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby snaker » 17 May 2018, 01:54

@expresso: I lost the link somewhere. But it is the same item that Gnomatic posted.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=540 ... oSite=main

The cells above are the same size as mine but have more capacity (85Ah instead of 75Ah). 18 cells cost around $520. If I buy them through a service in my country, the total cost would be around $600. And they will bring them to my door after 2 weeks.

As an experience from buyers In my country, taobao is more reliable and much cheaper than allibaba. And specs in Chinese sites are just for a slight reference, they are not accurate. And buying Chinese goods means accepting risks.

About the copper connectors, they could be easily handmade. A friend did all connectors for me in less than a hour. My dad (a 70yrs elder) could do even better.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8a28Pllepk3Nk6dQ2
User avatar
snaker
 
Posts: 574
Joined: 23 May 2015, 10:45
Location: Vietnam

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 17 May 2018, 02:11

thanks snaker -

i cant understand anything on those sites - at this point i am not rushing to get anything - i want to find the right size cost and AH

i am not doing a full chair with these - so i need them to be about 175mm tall to leave room for wiring - 145mm wide and 30mm thick would be fine

if i can find them with 75ah - fine - or 65ah - i consider them also if costs are good -

i dont think your cells would cost me the same if being shipped to the US

i would need to find someone or someplace to make the connectors if i didnt get them with the cells - or use wire

you got a great price -
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 17 May 2018, 02:43

total cost of 8 90Ah cells including shipping cost by FedEx to you is 1030US$.
please tell me your address in detail and phone number,so i can check shipping cost to you.


this is the email i got from that EV site BM linked to - big difference in costs when shipping to the US

they tried to find one of there cells to fit the size i need but didnt work out - plus the costs -
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby snaker » 17 May 2018, 07:41

@expresso, try to go into the Chinatown in NY and ask people there if they supply services to buy and ship goods on taobao? If they do, the cost might be cheap or at least not too expensive.
User avatar
snaker
 
Posts: 574
Joined: 23 May 2015, 10:45
Location: Vietnam

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Gnomatic » 17 May 2018, 15:38

Sixteen of hose 90Ah cells will fit within the footprint of a pair of Odyssey PC1500 batteries, but they won't fit within the footprint of a pair of G24 MK gel.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 17 May 2018, 15:58

snaker wrote:@expresso, try to go into the Chinatown in NY and ask people there if they supply services to buy and ship goods on taobao? If they do, the cost might be cheap or at least not too expensive.



good idea - easier said than done - its a mad house in Chinatown - i try to avoid those areas as much as i can to be honest - but its a good idea , option if i really wanted - this is NYC - if they can make a buck - they will rob you blind and make 100 bucks instead - or can get lucky never know -

i may just look for something thats about 60ah to 75ah cell if i can find one - last 75ah cell i found was $750 shipped to me - which isnt bad - alot more than you paid - thats 8 cells - but when i went to add 8 cells to the cart - it said it dosnt ship to my location - but on top it says free shipping to US -

i may have to email the seller if i wanted those - i want to keep looking for now - as much as i like to do it now - i dont mind waiting till the winter and leave it for a winter project - and just not use the Lead chair much till i get another ADD ON done for it -
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 17 May 2018, 16:03

Gnomatic wrote:Sixteen of hose 90Ah cells will fit within the footprint of a pair of Odyssey PC1500 batteries, but they won't fit within the footprint of a pair of G24 MK gel.



which cells are those ? i been checking the specs over and over - sometimes i swear it fits - and then sometimes i realize it wont - getting dizzy with all these specs that change on you the more you look at the item - what i dont like is in the return policy - if the item is not as expected or not as pictured - not buyers fault - you can return for refund - buyer pays return shipping !!!

or work out a refund with the seller and keep the items - one section shows specs - then another section shows different specs - its a bit tricky sometimes and no one is going to return them
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Gnomatic » 17 May 2018, 16:22

I'm talking about these.

http://www.evlithium.com/LiFePO4-Battery/472.html

you could nor fit two rows of 8 within the footprint of g24 mk gel. Although if you got creative, you could fit two rows of seven of these cells, and place the remaining two on the side of each row.

But I'd rather get cells that fit nicely in two rows, eight cells each. Even if that means the pack is "only" 150Ah - 160Ah. Plenty of capacity and easier to fit.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 17 May 2018, 16:34

yes your right - wont fit - those are the guys who emailed me back also -

36mm too thick - 30mm would be perfect - many that are 30mm - 75ah to 80ah - 220mm with hardware i bet , wiring etc, - but still fits :D
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby steves1977uk » 17 May 2018, 16:45

http://www.evlithium.com/LiFePO4-Battery/453.html Are the same size as the 90Ah cells czy Which can't be correct!

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 1926
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Gnomatic » 17 May 2018, 16:54

Yes I would have to think those size specs are wrong.

Which makes it confusing
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 17 May 2018, 16:58

If not, 200 x 130 x 36 mm

So... 200 tall, same height as MK...
130w x 2 is the same width as the MK, @ 260mm
36mm x 4 cells is 144 deep. And the MK is 171mm...

So you can fit 8 in the space of 1 MK. and have 24mm spare.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Gnomatic » 17 May 2018, 17:11

That's a better arrangement, at least better organized, than what I envisioned.

How much insulation would these things require between the cells?
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby Burgerman » 17 May 2018, 17:17

I was planning on 1mm plastic or pvc sheet. Think credit card. Or 2mm if the space allows. inc the bottom. Built as 2x 12v batteries. Or two 24v ones. And assembled with a little contact adhesive. Cut to my size plastic by waterjet/laser. Was looking at black polyethelene sheet in the back of a van yesterday, which looked perfect.

But the sizes might be wrong?

If so they still fit, just turn 90 degrees.

We have 345 x 262 planform, at least. Thats 2x MK.

mAYBE HERE https://www.cutplasticsheeting.co.uk/po ... propylene/
whole kit pre cut, is about 28 pounds delivered to your door. A few mins with some adhesive and you have a big Brick! Just need some careful calculating. Like 262mm x 200 for the cross parts. 9 needed.
Then the middles, 8 of 72 x 200
Then the sides, 4 of 144 x 200
Then the base from 3mm, 2 of 262 x 144
??

That will be it. Maybe wrap the corners in duct tape... Sit the lot on 4mm of lead sheet. For balance.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 39723
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: GTK Cells Connectors ?

Postby expresso » 17 May 2018, 17:38

DIMENSIONS
Inches (mm)
Length 10.20 (259 mm)
Width 6.56 (167 mm)
Height 9.24 (235 mm)
Including terminal

MK 24
Quickie P222se - - 60ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
expresso
 
Posts: 6086
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cavorite, Gnomatic, Google [Bot], shirley_hkg, Vitolds and 61 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker